Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  3

  The Gospel Message By Age

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so, it really irks me that the wt is able to snow people so easily with their mt.

  24: 14 "kingdom message" schtick.

  of the 30+ times "gospel of ____ " is listed in the nt, only 4 times is it "gospel of the kingdom".

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  Sea Breeze

  Good point waton. As usual, they try to have it both ways.
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  23

  Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

  by Sharpie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

  as per doctrine.

  is still alive in heaven right now correct?

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  Sea Breeze

  @VH,

  One of the main complaints about God is that he allows sin. Many erroneously conclude that there must not be a God, or at least one who cares. It is more accurate to say that God allows (even created) "Free Will".

  The existence of sin or evil proves that free will is very real. But what to do about the consequences of sin?

  1. Ignore it?

  2. Punish it ?

  3. Prevent it?

  To ignore sin is to enable sin. God is not an enabler.

  To prevent sin is to prevent Free Will. God loves freedom. "Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom."

  To punish sin is to promote containment of evil, and yet preserve/protect/promote freedom for the innocent.

  
  Enter - Grace. Grace restores relationship through the instrumentality of substitution. It is the kryptonite for sin. Real relationships are two-way enterprises. In Grace, there is the one extending it and the one receiving it. Where sin breaks relationship, grace restores it.
  
  If someone doesn't want Gods grace and vicarious payment of their sin, then they must pay for their sins themselves. It is simple to understand.

  Regarding the question on who the payment of sin is paid to, I think that all we have to do is look to our own courts. Prosecutors are said to represent "the people". Sentences are paid to the penal institution or the State, and not to the prosecutor himself.
  
  Likewise, the payment for sin is paid to the community of created agents capable of morality. That's the way I see it.

  So are you saying that JWs believe the ransom does nothing for them and only for Adam?

  They give a little lip service to the ransom sacrifice, but they ultimately believe that they will atone for their own sin when they die. So, the idea that Jesus is some sort of scapegoat for them personally isn't even on their radar. With WT lies, they are inoculated against seeing the need to receive Christ as their "kinsman redeemer", a man like us.
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  3

  The Gospel Message By Age

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so, it really irks me that the wt is able to snow people so easily with their mt.

  24: 14 "kingdom message" schtick.

  of the 30+ times "gospel of ____ " is listed in the nt, only 4 times is it "gospel of the kingdom".

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  Sea Breeze

  So, it really irks me that the WT is able to snow people so easily with their MT. 24: 14 "kingdom message" schtick. Of the 30+ times "Gospel of ____ " is listed in the NT, only 4 times is it "gospel of the kingdom". All the other times it's "gospel of Jesus", "gospel of your salvation", "gospel of grace"...etc.

  The Christian ministry is about reconciliation with God, not the kingdom.

  17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
  18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
  19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. - 2 Cor. 5

  The gospel (good news) will change into "the kingdom message" after the church age has ended. But it is still going on and hasn't ended in 1914 like the WT has been saying for over a hundred years.
  
  I believe the kingdom message will be preached by literal male Jewish virgins, (144,000 of them) during the Great Tribulation after the church has been raptured.
  
  This is also the view of about 2/3 of evangelicals. It explains why so many Christians never heard about this kingdom gospel when we went to their doors. They were used to hearing about the ministry of reconciliation and the gospel of grace, the good news of Jesus... which is the appropriate Christian message for the time period we are living in.

  Not only do JW's not preach the message of reconciliation that Jesus gave us, they claim that their redirection to the gospel of the kingdom is actually the voice of God. Wow! That just screams cult.
  
  
  
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  4

  Happy 4th

  by GabeAthouse in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  Sea Breeze

  Happy 4th !

  We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal.

  May we never forget just how radical these words were in 1776.
  
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  173

  Roe vs Wade Overturned by US Supreme Court!

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  i know there was a leak a few weeks back, but this really does seem to have come out of the blue.. the anomaly was the original decision.

  it clearly had no basis in law or the constitution, and was a flimsy, ridiculous ruling.

  plus the whole thing was based on a fraudulent case in the first place.. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61928898.

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  Sea Breeze

  
  
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  6

  Erotic cringey convention drama

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  check out this convention drama, starting at 21:38 ... david breaths and describes what he sees as bathsheba takes a bath 😅 then they get together and keep weirdly quoting song of solomon in a twisted way... and he keeps calling her sister and later on even "little sister" 😳 just wacko:.

  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-btbnfknidg&feature=youtu.be.

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  Sea Breeze

  I remember that convention. I was 10 years old. I think I remember the drama where bath sheba was bathing as well.

  More OT instruction on how to try harder not to sin. The NT shows an easier way:

  3 Do you not know that we who were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
  5 For if we have been united with Him in the likeness of His death, so shall we also be united with Him in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man has been crucified with Him, so that the body [power]of sin might be destroyed, and we should no longer be slaves to sin. - Romans 6

  I wonder why they never did dramas on the supernatural victory over sin that a believer can have.
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  39

  Climate propaganda

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  gotta love jwdotorg as usual regurgitating the financially/politically motivated (and thoroughly disproved) climate change propaganda:.

  https://www.jw.org/en/library/series/more-topics/ruining-the-earth-bible-meaning-hope/.

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  Sea Breeze

  Arctic ice cap growing again

  Thwaites Ice Shelf
  CREDIT: NASA/Wikipedia/Public Domain

  Arctic ice cap growing again
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  23

  Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

  by Sharpie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

  as per doctrine.

  is still alive in heaven right now correct?

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  Sea Breeze

  @WT Wizard,

  You have brought up Noahide Law a number of times. I'm curious as to what you think that is and why you think it will enslave us?
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  23

  Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

  by Sharpie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

  as per doctrine.

  is still alive in heaven right now correct?

  1. 
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  Sea Breeze

  Just trying to think of what the witness doctrine would say to this?

  WT would say that Jesus paid a debt for Adam.... not you or me. For the average JW, the WT would say that you now get to work for your salvation by doing good and adhering to all the rules of the WT. Pretty much the same as the Catholic Church.

  But scripture says that "by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified". (Justification means - no debt). But what is even worse than that is that scripture also says if you try to work for your salvation, you are actually piling up even more debt that you must pay for on Judgement Day - after you die (Hebrews 9:27)

  Rom_4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
  

  For the joy that was set before him, Jesus paid a debt He didn’t owe because we owed a debt we couldn’t pay.

  The moment when Jesus Christ was killed.. shouldn't life entered the world? But if Jesus Christ still exists, what good was the sacrifice? Shouldn't Jesus Christ be destroyed entirely for any sacrifice to take place?

  Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

  Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

  Believers get a new spirit when they are sealed. That new spirit cannot sin and thus is a down payment on the full redemption which will include the soul and the body.

  When Jesus died as a righteous person, he had no debt. Thus he had a "right" to life. Since God is "a God of the living and not the dead", God freely gave him his rightful inheritance of life.

  Believers are offered the same inheritance:

  Jn. 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God
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  8

  2 Peter and Jude and 1 Enoch

  by Parallax in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm new to the forum and i have a question about what was said in a 16-year-old thread at this forum.

  a poster by the name of leolaia said.... the author of 2 peter did not recognize that jude 6 was an allustion to 1 enoch (just as he did not realize that jude 9 was an allusion to the assumption of moses and thus rephrased it incoherently in 2 peter 2:11), or he may have objected to the enochic reference (just as jude 14-15 was omitted in 2 peter 2).

  in either case, the author overlooked the enochic allusion and instead recognized the passage as an allusion of hesiod and thus embellished the passage from jude with an allusion to hesiod's tartarus.. .

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  Sea Breeze

  The Muratorian Fragment lists 22 of the 27 NT books as canonical. It dates to 170 AD. The document is called a fragment because portions of the document have been torn off. The well known biblical scholar Westcott states that the missing books were probably included initially because the document is torn where they should have been listed.

  The answer to defeating the heresy of JW's is the Word of God itself... not more heresy.

  There are many, many ancient Jewish history books and historical Dead Sea Scrolls that are fascinating to read. Enoch is one. The Book of Jasher is another. Both books are either quoted or are mentioned by name in the bible. The Gnostic heretics wrote a number of works by the same names though. So be careful. The gnostic versions of ancient books are easy to determine, but you do have to be aware of them and be careful.
  
  You can pick up the Book of Jasher by Ken Johnson on Amazon. It is sort of a cliff notes version, is a good read, and will fill in a lot of the early details of humanity written about in Genesis.

  Ancient history books are not "lost books of the Bible". That is a marketing ploy. They were never considered inspired. And as such, believers read them with a grain of salt noting that they may not have been preserved exactly as originally written.
  
  Other books referenced in the bible:

  1. The Book of Wars, Num. 21:14
  2. The Book of Jasher, Josh. 10:13
  3. The Chronicles of David, 1 Chron. 27:24
  4. The Book of the Kings of Israel and Judah, 2 Chron. 27:7; 35:27; 36:8
  5. The Book of the Kings of Israel, I Chron. 9:1; 2 Chron. 20:34.
  6. The Words of the Kings of Israel, 2 Chron. 33:18.
  7. The Decree of David the King of Israel, 2 Chron. 35:4.
  8. The Chronicles of Samuel the Seer, 1 Chron. 29:29
  9. The Chronicles of Nathan the Prophet, 1 Chron. 29:29
  10. The Book of Gad, 1 Chron. 29:29
  11. The Book of the Prophet Iddo, 2 Chron. 13:22
  12. The Words of Shemaiah the Prophet, 2 Chron. 12:15
  13. The Deeds of Uzziah by Isaiah the Prophet, 2 Chron. 26:22; 32:32
  14. The Book of Jehu, 2 Chron. 20:34
  15. The Record book of Ahasuerus, Esther 2:23; 6:1
  16. The Book of Remembrance, Mal. 3:16
  17. The Book of Life, Dan. 12:1; Phil. 4:3; Rev. 20:11; 22:19
  18. The Book of Judgment, Dan. 7:10; Rev. 20:12
  19. The seven-sealed book, Rev. 5:1, 13.
  20. An angel’s book, Rev. 10:2

  The Book of Gad is also available on Amazon by Ken Johnson. It was a really good read as well.

  Testimony of the 12 Patriarchs is not referenced in the bible but is also available. It was considered by skeptics to be written by Christians several hundred years after Jesus lived because the theology is essentially Christian and not Pharisee. When a portion was found in Qumran with a BC date, it changed that view for many.